Sensible Defaults (opens in new tab)

(pgcli.com)

74 pointsamjith8y ago27 comments

27 comments

21 comments · 6 top-level

eriknstr8y ago· 10 in thread

Filling the indent area with dots is not a sensible default IMO. Often when I work on a query I am going to reuse it in an application. If PgAdmin III or psql filled the indent area with dots then they would be included when I copied the query I'd written.

Even though I always reformat the query, and even though the text editor I use -- vim / neo-vim -- supports rectangular text selection, I would be annoyed at such dots.

a3n8y ago

Don't fill it with dots, use it. This is my shell prompt. I break after the '%', so that long commands use as much of a line as possible, and I break before the prompt, because I like to visibly separate operations.

  aaron@tesla ~ % 
  pwd
  /home/aaron
  
  aaron@tesla ~ % 
  cd Projects 
  
  aaron@tesla ~/Projects % 
  pwd
  /home/aaron/Projects
  
  aaron@tesla ~/Projects %

kps8y ago

This is what my shell prompt looks like:

    : stuff;

If you copy the entire line, stuff is arguments to the ‘:’ command, which does nothing. (This does mean stuff can't contain unmatched shell special characters.)

I think this was invented in the Blit era by someone I've forgotten.

teh_klev8y ago

I do something similar which is based on the Cygwin default bash prompt:

    PS1='\033]0;${PWD}\n\033[32m${USER}@${HOSTNAME} \033[33m${PWD/${HOME}/~}\033[0m\n# '

Looks like:

    root@myhost.name /etc/httpd/conf
    #

amjithOP8y ago

That's good to know. Perhaps I should replace the dots with empty space. I'll do that if we get more requests for it.

Thank you for the feedback.

eriknstr8y ago

Empty space would be the better default I think yes.

1 more reply

blattimwind8y ago

The Python REPL notoriously uses >>>/... like in the screenshot, ẃith the effect that e.g. IPython has a special paste-from-repl magic just to remove these.

spion8y ago

Or alternatively the prompt character could start on a new line. That way you can have smaller windows fit more query per line with less space wasted on white-space.

2 more replies

adrianratnapala8y ago

While you are data gathering, I will half-vote the other way.

In VIM I make my whitespace visible, and just live with the consequences when I cut an paste. That said, I most of my empty spaces are still invisible, I only show tabs and trailing spaces.

1 more reply

peteretep8y ago

Don't want to pile on, but yes to empty spaces

tejasmanohar8y ago

The dots are my biggest gripe about pgcli. That would be an awesome change!

1 more reply

logicallee8y ago· 2 in thread

This is a serious, genuinely curious and open-ended comment - I'm not arguing for a position here or making a point and can accept any response.

Do people here think the world would be a better place if installing something didn't require reading any documentation (not even 45 minutes of it) or necessarily spend any time making choices?

For example, if it were possible to requisition a new AWS instance and install a Ruby on Rails configuration with "sensible" defaults on it, in, say, < 30 seconds, and it being secure and properly configured so that a newbie without any experience can immediately deploy apps on it securely and without understanding the parts involved or making choices?

I can see arguments for both sides.

dredmorbius8y ago

"Make a system any idiot can use and any idiot will."

The floor in user capabilities is low.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/69wk8y/the_tyr...

Also: http://wiki.c2.com/?IdiotProofProcess

speps8y ago

Sounds like https://zeit.co/now now you should find or create a Dockerfile that has the sensible defaults and you're good to go.

gleenn8y ago· 2 in thread

Actually a really nice command-line interface with autocomplete to postgres. I'm usually rapidly dissappointed with all the GUI offerings to Postgres so this is a breath of fresh air. Defaults definitely seemed reasonable as per TFA

_pmf_8y ago

I still think a Mathematica-eque workbook format (manipulable inline graphics and objects interspersed with regular REPL) would be the best of two worlds.

nerdponx8y ago

I think there are SQL backends for Jupyter and Zeppelin notebooks.

flgr8y ago· 1 in thread

  Expanded mode in psql is a way to output the results of a
  query if the output is too wide to fit in the screen when
  shown as a table. This can be toggled by \x on or \x off.
  
  [...] In pgcli, we have the ability to do this but this is
  not enabled by default. It has to be enabled via the config
  file (~/.config/pgcli/config) by the user.
  
  I don't think we'll change this behavior.

Why not? Seems quite sensible a thing to do when the output otherwise wouldn't fit.

amjithOP8y ago

The reason being the format change will be jarring to someone who is not used to seeing the expanded mode.

But you bring up a good point. I'm not mired by maintaining legacy, so I could take this as an opportunity to educate users about the \x auto by enabling it as default.

oftenwrong8y ago

Beyond "sensible defaults", it's also important to have the defaults specified sensibly. For robust application development, mainly when working with large software systems, I find it best to disallow "unset" configuration options and the implicit behaviour they entail. That is, every option must have its setting explicitly specified in the configuration. The defaults should exist as a "full" configuration, similar to the configuration file pgcli comes with. Unset configuration options result in a runtime error during application startup.

Also, I believe I first heard of pgcli from an HN comment, and since then I have been a daily user of it.

Animats8y ago

Oh, for a command-line SQL client.

I was expecting this to be about web pages.

"Yes, of course I want to sign up for your "newsletter" offering me the latest deals every hour on the hour!" Click on the invisible x to opt out. (Very Facebook.)

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

27 comments

21 comments · 6 top-level

eriknstr8y ago· 10 in thread

Even though I always reformat the query, and even though the text editor I use -- vim / neo-vim -- supports rectangular text selection, I would be annoyed at such dots.

a3n8y ago

  aaron@tesla ~ % 
  pwd
  /home/aaron
  
  aaron@tesla ~ % 
  cd Projects 
  
  aaron@tesla ~/Projects % 
  pwd
  /home/aaron/Projects
  
  aaron@tesla ~/Projects %

kps8y ago

This is what my shell prompt looks like:

    : stuff;

If you copy the entire line, stuff is arguments to the ‘:’ command, which does nothing. (This does mean stuff can't contain unmatched shell special characters.)

I think this was invented in the Blit era by someone I've forgotten.

teh_klev8y ago

I do something similar which is based on the Cygwin default bash prompt:

    PS1='\033]0;${PWD}\n\033[32m${USER}@${HOSTNAME} \033[33m${PWD/${HOME}/~}\033[0m\n# '

Looks like:

    root@myhost.name /etc/httpd/conf
    #

amjithOP8y ago

That's good to know. Perhaps I should replace the dots with empty space. I'll do that if we get more requests for it.

Thank you for the feedback.

eriknstr8y ago

Empty space would be the better default I think yes.

1 more reply

blattimwind8y ago

The Python REPL notoriously uses >>>/... like in the screenshot, ẃith the effect that e.g. IPython has a special paste-from-repl magic just to remove these.

spion8y ago

Or alternatively the prompt character could start on a new line. That way you can have smaller windows fit more query per line with less space wasted on white-space.

2 more replies

adrianratnapala8y ago

While you are data gathering, I will half-vote the other way.

In VIM I make my whitespace visible, and just live with the consequences when I cut an paste. That said, I most of my empty spaces are still invisible, I only show tabs and trailing spaces.

1 more reply

peteretep8y ago

Don't want to pile on, but yes to empty spaces

tejasmanohar8y ago

The dots are my biggest gripe about pgcli. That would be an awesome change!

1 more reply

logicallee8y ago· 2 in thread

This is a serious, genuinely curious and open-ended comment - I'm not arguing for a position here or making a point and can accept any response.

Do people here think the world would be a better place if installing something didn't require reading any documentation (not even 45 minutes of it) or necessarily spend any time making choices?

I can see arguments for both sides.

dredmorbius8y ago

"Make a system any idiot can use and any idiot will."

The floor in user capabilities is low.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/69wk8y/the_tyr...

Also: http://wiki.c2.com/?IdiotProofProcess

speps8y ago

Sounds like https://zeit.co/now now you should find or create a Dockerfile that has the sensible defaults and you're good to go.

gleenn8y ago· 2 in thread

_pmf_8y ago

I still think a Mathematica-eque workbook format (manipulable inline graphics and objects interspersed with regular REPL) would be the best of two worlds.

nerdponx8y ago

I think there are SQL backends for Jupyter and Zeppelin notebooks.

flgr8y ago· 1 in thread

  Expanded mode in psql is a way to output the results of a
  query if the output is too wide to fit in the screen when
  shown as a table. This can be toggled by \x on or \x off.
  
  [...] In pgcli, we have the ability to do this but this is
  not enabled by default. It has to be enabled via the config
  file (~/.config/pgcli/config) by the user.
  
  I don't think we'll change this behavior.

Why not? Seems quite sensible a thing to do when the output otherwise wouldn't fit.

amjithOP8y ago

The reason being the format change will be jarring to someone who is not used to seeing the expanded mode.

But you bring up a good point. I'm not mired by maintaining legacy, so I could take this as an opportunity to educate users about the \x auto by enabling it as default.

oftenwrong8y ago

Also, I believe I first heard of pgcli from an HN comment, and since then I have been a daily user of it.

Animats8y ago

Oh, for a command-line SQL client.

I was expecting this to be about web pages.

"Yes, of course I want to sign up for your "newsletter" offering me the latest deals every hour on the hour!" Click on the invisible x to opt out. (Very Facebook.)

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse