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0 pointsstretchwithme15y ago0 comments

I am not against government or rules. I am against the idea that coercion is the means. Voluntary cooperation, not the use of force, is the means by which we create solutions to all sorts of problems.

Health is no different. It suffers over the long term when people think the use of force to get some short term benefit.

Somehow we live our lives with the understanding that forcing those around to do what we want would destructive, even if it was somehow benevolent. But collectively, we've convinced ourselves that this cannot be the case.

Perhaps it is because the dominant opinion is actually propagated with our own money even if we don't agree and alternative perspectives buried by the mesh of financing and media access of government.

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Vivtek15y ago

Yes, voluntary compliance with regulations works so well to preserve the Commons - it was clearly in BP's interest to comply with regulations in the Gulf, for instance, and clearly in Goldman-Sachs's interest to preserve the global financial structure. Only idiots would choose short-term savings or profit-taking over long-term global stability, after all; enlightened self-interest will take care of everything!

I like your overall philosophy that coercion is wrong, and in principle I agree with it. I wish that human nature didn't contradict it. Sadly, on every hand I see that actual, real live human beings must be coerced to do good if even the slightest amount of consistency is required.

stretchwithmeOP15y ago

I'm not talking about voluntary compliance to government regulation.

I'm talking about regulation and government freely agreed to by people when they decide to engage in an activity in an area. And these rules should be decided upon by those whose property is at stake, not by people who just collect tax revenue off in Washington.

The problem is that no system of property has been worked for territorial waters. So no one has any direct financial stake or right to investigate and sure over pollution from rivers. That must wait until the government decides to give it its fully divided and compromised attention.

Human beings only need to be coerced when they fail to live up to their agreements or when they violate the rights of others. But that is not the wrong use of force I seek to stop. Its authorized by your human rights and by the contracts people freely agree to.

Beyond that, coercion is destructive and should be avoided. There is no right that authorizes its use.

Vivtek15y ago

What you are implying is that because nobody owns the Gulf of Mexico, BP had no reason not to kill it.

I call that insanity.

stretchwithmeOP15y ago

no, I implying that if there were owners with a much more direct interest in the future well being of what they own than some distant short-term oriented politician, had set the rules instead of the government, they would have done a BETTER job of regulating what was going.

The government regulates tightly after a disaster and less tightly as memories fade and lobbyists start manipulating them. Politicians will never be as consistently interested in the wellbeing of the gulf or anything else as those with a more direct interest. Which is why the government agree to a ridiculous limit of $75 million on total liability for drilling, something an owner never would have done.

Its the same story over and over, in industry after industry. Government ignores the risks, disaster strikes, they overreact. And then gradually over time the lobbyists erode every restriction, good or bad.

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Vivtek15y ago

stretchwithmeOP15y ago

I'm not talking about voluntary compliance to government regulation.

Beyond that, coercion is destructive and should be avoided. There is no right that authorizes its use.

Vivtek15y ago

What you are implying is that because nobody owns the Gulf of Mexico, BP had no reason not to kill it.

I call that insanity.

stretchwithmeOP15y ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse