undefined | Better HN

story

0 pointsnicolas_t15y ago0 comments

A bit out of topic, I think on the question of China many people have a black and white view of the situation...

In the case of google, they came to China but actually provided a less censored service than baidu (by writing in the search pages that some results were left out because of censoring thus attracting attention to it)... So in what way was their behavior evil?

Additionnaly, they never started any blogging service in China that would have put them in a situation where they had to give information to the government about political activists (unlike yahoo who gave such information)...

So, I don't think Google did anything evil in that case...

0 comments

btmorex15y ago

They traded freedom of speech for ~1.3 billion people for a decidedly limited amount of money. To me that's a moral calculation and they chose money.

nicolas_tOP15y ago

In what way did they trade freedom of speech? Did people in China have more freedom of speech before they came to China? Could they have forced the chinese government to limit censoring?

Of course not... The only thing they could do and did is give another reliable search engine that censored less than their competitors...

JoeAltmaier15y ago

No, I understand it required collusion with China to make it impossible to resolve Google.com to a different search engine. If they did nothing, folks could Google with the same engine the rest of us do. Try to remember, your ancestors may have fought and died to stay free. Google certainly did not extend themselves in any way to promote this ideal. This discussion here is probably not available in China.

sailormoon15y ago

That is utter hyperbole. Google never had the "freedom of speech for ~1.3 billion people" to trade. They do not and probably never will have anything like that kind of power. I am far from a Google fanboy but if you're going to criticise them, please keep it reasonable.

btmorex15y ago

That is reasonable. I'm simply asking them to not do business with a repressive government. Maybe, you don't think freedom of speech is important, but I do.

As for what kind of effect they could have: Google is an internationally recognized brand that is most certainly known in China (even without being the dominant search engine). Refusing to do business with China would be hard for the state-run media to explain away.

Of course, I think a lot of people really, really want to believe that Google is different from every single other multinational organization that has ever existed. It's not.

nicolas_tOP15y ago

Facebook and Twitter are internationally recognized brand that are blocked in China... Explaining that away is no problem for the Chinese government.

I think the difference between your point of view and my point of view is that I don't see things as completely black...

China is a repressive government and freedom of speech is not allowed there but it's certainly better than it was during the cultural revolution and I think it'll get better...

Now, as someone who lived in China before Google decided to move in the chinese market I can tell you that it was a great news to see them move... Before they were intermitently blocked by the Chinese firewall, a lot of queries were blocked so access to good search engines was not very good...

After Google moved to China, well they had to censor some of the results out but then they would point it out, and connection and access to google was much better...

So for me, it was a net benefit to see google move in China, and I hope that them moving out won't result in their being blocked again...

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

btmorex15y ago

They traded freedom of speech for ~1.3 billion people for a decidedly limited amount of money. To me that's a moral calculation and they chose money.

nicolas_tOP15y ago

In what way did they trade freedom of speech? Did people in China have more freedom of speech before they came to China? Could they have forced the chinese government to limit censoring?

Of course not... The only thing they could do and did is give another reliable search engine that censored less than their competitors...

JoeAltmaier15y ago

sailormoon15y ago

btmorex15y ago

That is reasonable. I'm simply asking them to not do business with a repressive government. Maybe, you don't think freedom of speech is important, but I do.

Of course, I think a lot of people really, really want to believe that Google is different from every single other multinational organization that has ever existed. It's not.

nicolas_tOP15y ago

Facebook and Twitter are internationally recognized brand that are blocked in China... Explaining that away is no problem for the Chinese government.

I think the difference between your point of view and my point of view is that I don't see things as completely black...

China is a repressive government and freedom of speech is not allowed there but it's certainly better than it was during the cultural revolution and I think it'll get better...

After Google moved to China, well they had to censor some of the results out but then they would point it out, and connection and access to google was much better...

So for me, it was a net benefit to see google move in China, and I hope that them moving out won't result in their being blocked again...

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse