People always ask if I don't like tomatoes when I eat around them in salads or remove from burgers. Nope, I love tomatoes, that's why I don't eat flavorless, unseasonal ones.
pro tip: Use canned tomatoes instead of fresh whenever out of season; canners use varieties that have not been ruined for shipping, and seal at the peak of freshness.
It will happen when enough people will be ready to choose tasteful vs "cheap & looking good".
Edit: nice to see downvotes without any discourse. Keep it up HN!
https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2726844/
That being said, it's a little more complex than that. From http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/29/health/canned-foods-bpa-risk/ :
>Now, a study published in the journal Environmental Research on Wednesday not only reveals that consuming canned foods can expose our bodies to BPA, it pinpoints the worst offenders. The study suggests that canned soups and pasta can expose consumers to higher concentrations of BPA than canned vegetables and fruit -- and although those foods are tied to BPA concentrations, canned beverages, meat and fish are not.
>nice to see downvotes...
HN asks people not to complain about downvoting. It karma whoring.
> Pro tip:
If you are a professional please state how? Else this is just more of the Reddits we are trying to escape.
> The coating inside of them is loaded with
Your linked article do not show it's 'Loaded with'
> without any discourse.
Seems to be a fair amount of it? Once again Reddit style making out like you're the under dog.
And the obvious
Most experts currently state there are no issues with BPA's in our diets in foods like cans, so more than one sentence is needed for this to be a constructive start to the conversation that opposes medical advice.
It's not that the flavour got worse, it's that a lot of fruits and vegetables were selected for other factors than what they taste like. They don't taste different, they just don't taste much like anything.
I'm not saying this confirms that "everything was better in the old days" but flavour differences are real and being picky about strawberries or tomatoes isn't just about preferring what you grew up with. The watery breeds aren't so widespread because younger people prefer them, they're widespread for economical reasons and younger people (allegedly) prefer them because they're more familiar with them.
I have done this experiment with Apples and Oranges kids really prefer the full flavor options and they are not just preferring their childhood tastes as they are still kids.
Yeah, except that it's more like flavors didn't change so much as disappear.
I could totally be delusional about the popcorn, though — I'm not that old. But one could do a taste test: 5600 year old kernels were shown to still pop.
This explains why I love canned/boxed tomatoes, but hate the slimy, bland sliced ones they put on sandwiches.
1) San Marzano (imported) 2) Muir Glen Organic
For more info, see http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/68538/are-these-t...
Someone more experienced want to pipe in and help my ignorance?
Have you found any varieties that taste like the parent poster describes? I.E. with heavy corn flavor? I've tried a few "heirloom" varieties and they've usually been nuttier-tasting, with smaller pops and a much worse popped-to-unpopped ratio than the Redenbacher corn (though the flavor's usually interesting enough that I don't mind that too much). Definitely not cornier-tasting—farther from it, if anything.
I now have a machine that does the same thing. I just put a bit of oil in the bottom (very little) and let it do the stuff.
Typically when single trait breeding leads to an adverse, undesirable affect (lack of taste), while the selected trait was obtained (in this case, possibly bigger size) breeders don't start from scratch by trying to isolate the desired trait without obtaining the undesirable trait. Instead, as in software, the breeders iterate by trying to remove the negative trait, complicating the hybrids and possibly more unknown adverse traits. It seems like it might be wise to start from scratch in some cases and keep it simple, rather then make hybrid species whose lineage can be difficult to trace.
[0]: https://books.google.com/books?id=aMVmhqpILOAC&printsec=fron... page 70
EDIT: In addition to pushing for bigger dogs, it's also profitable to drive down food and vet costs. Kennel clubs like the American Kennel Club are scams. The kennel clubs just receive fees for processing paper. They don't inspect breeders. They don't care if you're a puppy mill. As long as you pay your fees, you will get your papers.
And we also don't want anyone to claim exclusive rights on producing such tomatoes, because some moron came up with the idea to patent genes.
I'd much rather have one heirloom than 4 identical red tomatoes still on a vine sold in a plastic box.
I have taken some really tasty hybrids and grew them back down into a heirloom of sorts. I've started to grow tomatoes 5 years ago. http://unturf2.tumblr.com
That said, yeah we don't need to engineer the flavor back into tomatoes, we need people to vote with their wallets.
People like what they know. But I'm guessing repeated exposure could end up shifting the tastes.
I developed a taste for spicy food after years of avoiding it like the plague for digestive reasons but only found out after I had a strong craving for Indian food and accidentally got something really spicy. I also can't bring myself to order tortas because I ate one too soon after getting really sick from tacos. Reading the word "tortas" makes me feel nauseous but "tacos" does not and I can eat both without any negative response (once the food is in front of me). These examples are orthogonal to yours but I think they're illustrative of just how complex the interactions are. I don't doubt the adaptations you mentioned are there, just how prelevant they are in a modern agricultural society.
I grow 6-7 different types of tomatoes in my backyard (including heirloom types). Some are good, some varieties are bland. Have had a few supermarket cherry tomatoes recently that have been great, and similar experiences with others.
Often I end up picking my own tomatoes before they're perfectly ripe anyway to lessen the chance of birds/bugs/rats beating me to it. Little different to growers picking early for transport.
I also grow two different types of strawberries. They're good, but so are those we get in shops.
Of course if you happen to know somebody that grows them and you can pick them off the plant they will be even more incredible, but even the "normal" supermarket ones are going to be orders of magnitude tastier than anything you can find in North America in my experience.
The issue is of course that said tomatoes are available only for a short period of time, so if you are having a craving for them in December, you are out of luck, but that's the way it's always been, the summer ones are just as tasty now as they've always been so there's no need to put taste "back" into them.
I've been growing them for years, even when I was living in apartments with no garden space at all. For really tight space, something like an EarthBox works great - you get very high plant density. I had one of those on a balcony barely bigger than the box itself, and I still had a few fresh tomatoes every week!
Here in the SF bay area, you can sprout the seeds in late Feb, early March, and you've got edible tomatoes by mid may, all the way through October. I'm pretty sure I can build a cheap glass house and have them year round, now that I have back yard.
Soil, however, will affect your taste. I really miss good summer tomatoes from Indiana - I knew folks that moved down south and complained about the difference in taste, even when they grew them.
I think a clarification is in order. The general consensus is that if a tomato is an heirloom it is not a hybrid, and vice versa.
I have had excellent luck with growing plants from collected seeds for any of the heirloom tomatoes I've grown. With hybrids, your mileage may vary.
That being said, I find heirloom tomatoes to be a lot more finicky to grow. Various species are sensitive to diseases. Excessive rain increases chances of diseases, and therefore, a green house or at least rain cover helps out.
That being said, I encourage anyone to try growing their own tomatoes. You will get fruit! It's hugely satisfying. Once you eat a good tomato, it feels like you are in on a secret most people don't know about.
We've planted tomatoes for 16 years (hope springs eternal) in the SF Peninsula hills and gotten nearly nothing in return. Our next-door neighbor has far better sun exposure, and she gives us most of the tomatoes we eat in summer.
Sometimes I think I didn't know wealth until I had a cherokee purple straight off the vine. You can practically make sashimi with it.
Now I'm just gonna come out and say it: fucking with genes worries me. It only takes one unforeseen toxic externality for the whole thing to turn out very poorly. (dangers of monocropping; turning plants into intellectual property, whatever the hell happened to pugs, etc.)
Just know how surprisingly easy it is to grow your own--and do! That's all I'm saying.
Nothing to do with biotechnology or genome editing. In fact both technologies can and will be used to make crops more diverse.
>turning plants into intellectual property
There are specific plant breeds that are already closely guarded IP. Not to mention, this is like being against software because software patents exist.
>whatever the hell happened to pugs
Selective breeding? That's what is responsible for every vegetable you have ever eaten, ever, without exception.
>Now I'm just gonna come out and say it: fucking with genes worries me. It only takes one unforeseen toxic externality for the whole thing to turn out very poorly
"Fucking with genes" is what enabled the agricultural revolution, the green revolution, and is responsible for all of the food we eat today. Now we have the biotechnology and understanding to edit genes in ways that are inherently safer, more targeted, and less random. Are you not concerned that your conclusion (biotechnology is too scary to ever use) is not held by the overwhelminh majority of plant scientists and geneticists? Is there anything you and I can talk about that would convince you of not being anti-biotechnology?
Sure. I'm not strongly anti-biotechnology.
On reflection, the two points that really bother me.
a) genetic modifications are usually for stuff like "keeping potatoes from bruising because people don't like the look of bruised potatoes." Or "keeping tomatoes flavorful so people can keep mindlessly buying them out of season." They're always fixes that allow the consumer to remain as passive as possible.
b) I've never hear a single scientist make a good argument against GMOs. What, like you can't come up with a single possible downside? I think what finally convinced me to vote for Hillary was seeing the best arguments against her, by people who really hated her guts (like, really, the worst you have are dark insinuations?) I want to hear someone creative/knowledgeable come up with their best argument against GMOs. Like, they got hired to find the worst case scenarios. I just feel like I've never heard that argument articulated well.
Anyway, there are two possibilities: a) this issue is so amazingly stupid that no informed person would ever be bothered by these practices. b) there are real--if unlikely--toxic externalities to genetic modification, but no informed person wants to share them because they don't want to feed the fire of ignorance.
And, yeah, the dismissive tone of scientists I've talked to, coupled with their apparent ignorance, has not reassured me that this conversation is being had in good faith.
https://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/patent-basics/...
Toxic externalities, as you say, occur readily in traditional breeding when creating hybrids. I find it very difficult to believe you have any experience or background in breeding or agriculture if you're not aware of this. Targeted modifications are much easier to understand and predict; it's a matter of changing a single locus vs. thousands.
Certain modifications could be foolish, but for reasons we understand. Extant transgenics focus on e.g. the Shikimic acid pathway (roundup ready) precisely because it is absent outside of plants, and therefore unlikely to cause complications prima facie.
At our cooperative store we have amazing flavorful tomatoes.
The idea is to re-introduce these traits in lines that are amenable to modern agriculture. Namely, drought/pest/salinity tolerance, firmness and ability to ship, yield, use in marginal soils, etc. etc.
I'm all for agricultural alternatives, but modern agriculture obviously plays a huge role in our food production, and will continue to do so for some time.
Within the last year I have had lady-finger, apple and Fe'i bananas and various plantains. All delicious!
I want to try red and blue/ice-cream but am having trouble finding them in the UK or on my travels...
Even tomatoes bought from farmer's market are not much better because they don't use the tastiest varieties of tomatoes.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/10/18/science/tomato-flavor-...
http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/07/how-to-store-tomatoes.htm...
http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/09/tomato-taste-test-refrige...
http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/09/why-you-should-refrigerat...
I would love 5 varieties of hardy tomato each testing better in its own way!
And people say that organic doesn't affect flavour! (Ok ok I know, it doesn't have to be organic)
I grew my own tomatoes a few years ago and they had a very strong tomato flavour. Delicious!
> The University of Florida has released our first two hybrids. We are in discussions with seed companies about licensing.
I hope they allow people to save seeds. They should patent all their source seeds immediately and mark them as open/allowing people to use any without worry of patents.
Farmers will need to be careful as always. Any seeds that happen to get cross pollinated with seeds from the big producers (Monsanto, DuPont, etc.) run the risk of paying licensing fees in our current fucked up patenting system (thanks GE).
You can actually sue your neighbors and/or these companies for geneflow into your heirloom crops.
There has never been a recorded lawsuit where a farmer has been sued for unintentional gene flow. Only intentional patent infringement.
>(thanks GE).
People have been patenting crops for over 100 years.
Nobody cared until GMO's came along...
I highly recommend the book The Dorito Effect to anyone more interested in how the flavors of food have changed over time. Despite the fluffy name, it's a very well-researched and well-written book.
Going back to the backyard and starting again. I think the hard part is finding the right seed.
No, tomatoes taste pretty bland in many European countries too.
The Netherlands and Spain are the two top tomato-exporting countries in Europe. As you can probably guess, the sunny climes of the Netherlands aren't exactly conducive to ripe, flavourful tomatoes. But large-scale industrial tomato farming is conducive to achieving cheap prices that consumers expect at the supermarket.
I do have better luck buying small cherry or grape tomatoes, but when possible I use the tinned tomatoes.
Somehow, they found out how to make them look ready but still not ripe. And now they found out how to screw the taste to taste better.
So they will look and taste good, but the nutritive value will be questionable.
Waste of research effort.
Edit: to the people modding this down: you realize that research will hit the poorest hardest? They can't buy organic tomatoes, they think what they paid for is good nutritive food, except it isn't.
Organic does not save the earth. Sometimes is does, but other times it is more harmful than the conventional practice.
Organic is not more nutritious. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it is less (because the farmer cannot replace the nutrients last year's crop took out)
Organic is not fresher or better tasting. Sometimes it is, but that is not a reflection on organic, it is a reflection on conventional farmers not finding it worthwhile to sell fresher.
I thought the whole point of organic is that there are no pesticides being used in the first place.
Ethylene: The Ripening Hormone
