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0 pointsrsync9y ago0 comments

"For the NIMBYs, they are ok with #1. They desire that their city stays the same, it has the same architecture, unblocked vistas, the density they are used to, the natives they know."

... which is a totally reasonable, perfectly rational position. Further, it is a policy regime that has been achieved democratically.

Personally, I am very much in favor of infill. There is a lot of crappy two story housing stock in san francisco that has no charm and no aesthetic value and would lend itself perfectly to at least doubling of density.

But let's not talk about the opponents of this as if they are flat-earthers or white supremacists or something - their stance is just as reasonable as any other socio-economic-political view.

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5 comments · 2 top-level

santaclaus9y ago· 3 in thread

> But let's not talk about the opponents of this as if they are flat-earthers or white supremacists or something

Sure, but NIMBYism is in direct opposition to a more socially equitable and environmentally sustainable future. To claim to be progressive while espousing gated-community like values (which is quite common in the Bay Area) is, well, a bit troublesome.

rsyncOP9y ago

"Sure, but NIMBYism is in direct opposition to a more socially equitable and environmentally sustainable future."

I hate to nitpick, but ...

NIMBY is a general term that refers to preserving a particular, entrenched environment.

So yes, San Francisco NIMBYism in early 21st century does seem to be in opposition to increasing environmental sustainability. I'm sure there are plenty of NIMBY environments around the world that don't fit that mold, though.

The socially equitable part is more of a reach, however.

Nobody has a gun to their head forcing them to live in San Francisco and likewise, nobody[1] is starving in San Francisco. John Smith who bought a home in SF in the early 80s and is retired on his post office pension and social security shouldn't be redistributing his wealth to anyone.

[1] That is to say, nobody that isn't mentally ill or detached from reality.

Inconel9y ago

I'm not sure how we go from John Smith opposing high density development to John Smith being asked to redistribute his wealth to anyone? While we're on the topic of wealth redistribution though, perhaps John Smith shouldn't demand that younger people redistribute their wealth to him so that he can keep paying taxes on his property that are well below the current levels. All the while railing against any effort to make housing and transit more affordable.

>[1] That is to say, nobody that isn't mentally ill or detached from reality.

I too hate to nitpick, but...unless we're taking a very literal view of starving, as opposed to a constant struggle to feeding yourself, you should check out the percentage of SF schoolchildren on subsidized lunches or perhaps spend some time among the homeless, particularly homeless youth. I can assure you there are plenty of people going hungry in SF.

I suppose you are correct in that no one is holding a gun to their head though, just a case of bad luck I guess.

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crdoconnor9y ago

>Nobody has a gun to their head forcing them to live in San Francisco and likewise, nobody[1] is starving in San Francisco. John Smith who bought a home in SF in the early 80s and is retired on his post office pension and social security shouldn't be redistributing his wealth to anyone.

If John Smith is renting out his house for $4,000 a month it's other people who are redistributing their wealth to him.

Privately owned land is essentially another form of privatized tax collection and all the same rules about guns being pointed at you apply.

redditmigrant9y ago

>But let's not talk about the opponents of this as if they are flat-earthers or white supremacists or something - their stance is just as reasonable as any other socio-economic-political view.

Sure. The NIMBYs are not flat-earthers but they are definitely an impediment to attracting the next generation of young entrepreneurial people to this area. While building more housing might hurt them slightly in the short term, it needs to be done for the greater good. If this needs legislation at the state level, so be it. In this scenario I have very little sympathy for the rational NIMBYs. They had the opportunity for years to responsibly increase the housing supply so that we didnt need heavy handed approaches, but they chose to be greedy and short sighted which means they will have to loose their power.

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