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0 pointsmdaniel9y ago0 comments

> Here's to hoping Grumpy takes on a life of its own and is the new de facto Python.

I can appreciate you have that opinion, but I'll be livid if that's true - the last thing in the entire world I want is to do battle with dependencies and the very, very strict/opinionated Go build system.

If your idea is that all Py27 is just transpiled into Go and then jettisoned, that's fine, but keeping one foot in each world sounds terrible.

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BuckRogers9y ago· 2 in thread

Go compiles down to native code (x86, ARM assembly etc). That's what Grumpy code generates as well but it still needs to be maintained in the original Python2 or Go (depending on whatever your original source is). What I'm suggesting is that Python3 is jettisoned and Grumpy takes the forsaken throne that Python left behind.

One thing is clear with all these new compilers/runtimes, you want to be writing Python2 syntax because that's where all the action is. I hope Grumpy succeeds and new features are added and becomes it's own ecosystem that plays nicely with Go code. These folks at Google have really done what Guido & Co should've done.

This is Python3 as most of us wanted it to be, it's worth rewriting all your code for... but you don't even have to do that. Valid Python2 is Grumpy already. I don't know what else I'd want. It compiles existing Python2 AND offers a legitimate upgrade from CPython at the same time.

As far as all of the lost C extensions? You won't need them with the performance that the Go runtime has. That's been the answer all this time, not maintaining C-extension compatibility.

They nailed this thing, it's the answer to "what's the future of Python?" that everyone has been wondering for the past 9 years.

guitarbill9y ago

> you want to be writing Python2 syntax because that's where all the action is.

> This is Python3 as most of us wanted it to be.

> Valid Python2 is Grumpy already.

> It compiles existing Python2 AND offers a legitimate upgrade from CPython at the same time.

> As far as all of the lost C extensions? You won't need them

None of the statements are true. You seem to be very confused what Grumpy can and can't do, and what the need of actual Python developers are.

The only benefit of Grumpy is speed (I don't think go "interop" counts). Now, that's a pretty big benefit for some, but comes with significant drawbacks and probably always will. Even though CPython is only the reference implementation, many clever people have worked to make it faster. Getting rid of the GIL is also very difficult. The easiest way to gain speed is to limit Python to a subset of features and then optimise for that. While this is a fair approach, hailing it as the future of Python is terribly misguided.

BuckRogers9y ago

Citations needed for your assertion on each point being false.

Grumpy proves Python2 is where the action is at. Everyone wanted a speed improvement with a new Python, that's the ultimate carrot.. instead Python3 was and still is in some ways slower than 2. Other than exec, eval and C-extensions, Python2 is valid Grumpy.

You didn't provide any reasoning or proof that my points, which were just reiterated, were false. If you're going to "port" anywhere from Python2, removing C extensions (which no language should have to be dependent upon anyway, so it's an improvement) and exec/eval usage is a bigger win than Python3.

The future of Python is what the users decide, not what the PSF decided. I recognize there's a lot of confusion and propaganda surrounding that. This is open source, not top-down control.

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