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0 pointsnitrogen9y ago0 comments

I think what we are missing in some discussions of the "plight of [the] poor" is some measure of sovereignty and opportunity. Class mobility statistics don't capture all of this idea.

Sure, the US poor may have cheap giant TVs from Walmart, but they may or may not have any reliable means of becoming something other than poor, and they may or may not have much control over their own lives.

Earlier in my life I spent a little bit of time in a very poor community in inland California as a volunteer, and nothing I saw convinced me that society is working for those people, and especially their children. The expectations were low, opportunities almost nonexistent.

The message I'd like us to take away from these discussions isn't, "Let's ignore all the improvements that have been made," but rather, "Let's not stop now, there's much more to be done."

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devoply9y ago· 1 in thread

Humans don't perceive their reality on absolute terms. They perceive them on relative terms. Though the stats may be correct in absolute terms, the experience that individuals have are significantly different and shared by perceptions of how they are doing vs. how other people in their social group or country are doing... and what hopes they have for the future. From that perspective people in the West are very cynical/pessimistic and miserable because of it.

So relative poverty is what matters and also the ability to look into the future and see greener pastures. People in the West don't see this happening. Instead they see more competition for ever dwindling jobs. See corporations that do not want to treat them fairly. See governments which are not on their side... etc. etc. This is distressing.

So they dismiss findings that things are getting better for poor people as propaganda. Because those people are not in their social group and the information does not apply to their experience of reality.

bzbarsky9y ago

> So relative poverty is what matters

They both matter. Having a society of full economic and social equality (whatever that means) at circa 1700 living standards is arguably worse than what we have now, looking from the outside in. From the inside, people in such a society might indeed be happy enough because they are no worse off than anyone else...