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0 pointsrubber_duck9y ago0 comments

>But Rust can compete on so many more levels

How ? There are languages with more expressive type systems high level type systems (Haskel/OCaml presumably). There are languages with much more mature libraries, ecosystems and tooling (C#/Java). There are languages with both (F#/Scala).

What is it that makes Rust a good applications programming language ? You said it your self GC doesn't really matter that much in this space and GC based languages are just more elegant and not to mention the tooling is way more mature. Runtime also doesn't matter that much and with the recent changes to .NET can be avoided anyway.

This Rust fanboyism is turning in to the new node hype "use node for everything node is web scale fast because it uses an event loop io instead of thread based io", "use rust for everything because the type safety is literally the best and it's the only language with a strong type system out there". I get it it's new and shiny, I like it to, and it has a strong argument to make in the systems programming - the designers are doing a good job of making trade offs that let you retain low level control while still having memory safety - but these tradeoffs are just that and they come at the expense of higher level stuff, higher level languages don't need to make these because they don't pretend to be systems programming languages.

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10 comments · 3 top-level

EugeneOZ9y ago· 6 in thread

When I write in Rust, I have feeling "that's how programming should work". I don't know how to express it in more scientific way. Errors handling, pattern matching, Result type - it's all how it should work. I know, some other languages have similar features, but Rust also has race-conditions protection (very important thing), good package manager out of the box, testing tool (cargo test), very smart compiler and great performance - just all the best.

didibus9y ago

Lots of good programming languages out there today honestly. Rust is great. I recommend everyone learns themselves a language for each need.

I've got Clojure/Clojurescript, Rust, Python, HTML5 JavaScript, F#/C# and Java.

Clojure/Clojurescript is used for long running processes and web development. So backend/frontend stuff. I also use it for fun experiments, the REPL is great at that.

Rust is used when performance matters, when I want the simplicity of running a native executable with no heavy dependency, and when I need to write low level components.

Python is my goto scripting language for quick scripts, hacks, messing around. It also serves my scientific computing needs, data mining, visualization, etc. Also, this is the best language I've found for doing coding interviews or practice. So easy to whiteboard python.

HTML5 JavaScript is used for most web development, for customizing my editor Atom.io, and other things. With Metro apps, and other OS moving towards an HTML5 JavaScript stack, its also quite good at some user apps.

F# is good for simply knowing an ML language and when I want more functional flair in the .Net world.

C# and Java are used to pay the bills, as they are easiest to find jobs for.

There would be valid alternatives for most of those categories, but I highly recommend everyone invest in knowing one language for each one.

newsat139y ago

I get the opposite feeling. When I write in Rust, I have feeling "that's how programming shouldn't work". The syntax is awkward and you are expected to spend weeks to get anything done. Ultimately, it seems to come down to Rust fans who have a sunken cost fallacy - I spent weeks learning this, so they think it is worth it.

spc4769y ago

When I was learning C back in 1990, it took me a long time to get comfortable with it, and that's after years of programming in Assembly language (8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit). It took me some time to stop writing assembly in C and start writing C in C, if that make sense.

I haven't switched to Rust yet (I still deal with C/C++ at work on "legacy" code, and I'm having too much fun with Lua for my own stuff) but I don't expect to pick it up "quickly" and I'm sure I'll be trying to write C in Rust for some time. It comes with the territory.

MustardTiger9y ago

Just because some people have a different opinion than you, doesn't mean it is due to fallacious reasoning. Ultimately, it seems to come down to rust haters who have a sunken cost fallacy - I spent years writing bad code in bad lanaguages, so I don't want to give that up to do things better.

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EugeneOZ9y ago

Few weeks is not enough time to get it when you don't like ideas of the language initially. I tried to read one dynamic language (will not name it to avoid fans fury) and realized very quickly that it's not my language. The only difference - I've been never thinking about "sunken cost fallacy" - there are languages I can use and there are others, and this diversity is necessary for healthy evolution.

Retra9y ago

I spent weeks learning other languages, just as I have Rust, but I still prefer to write code in Rust.

stcredzero9y ago· 1 in thread

This Rust fanboyism is turning in to the new node hype "use node for everything node is web scale fast because it uses an event loop io instead of thread based io"

If what you are suggesting is true, isn't the biggest problem by far the fanboyism posing as knowledge? Wouldn't complaining about Rust be like living in the age of alchemy, and complaining about someone's particular potion? Isn't the epistemological squishyness of the entire field the biggest problem by far?

llogiq9y ago

No, that's cache invalidation. And naming things.

andrewflnr9y ago

Yeah, on any given dimension, even safety, you'll find languages that are stronger than Rust. It excels IMO because of the balance it finds between type system, safety, functional vs imperative code, etc. It puts all these together in one package that I feel like I can use for actual work. I don't know of any other solid contenders here, except maybe Swift.

I have to agree that the "Rust all the things!" game is getting old.

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