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0 pointsSomeCallMeTim9y ago0 comments

I only stayed at Amazon for one year, but I was told that if I'd stayed for two years they would have offered me more equity.

So yes, there are refresh equity grants. I've heard from a good source that they do that at Apple as well.

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amzn-3364959y ago

There are refresh equity grants unless you are on a PIP. Now you know what all the fucking PIPs are all about at Amazon (other than blocking your transfer).

You should not listen to what anyone at Amazon tells you.

SomeCallMeTimOP9y ago

Did you notice the part where I worked at Amazon in-house for a year? I was a consultant for them for six month before that as well.

And my experience was pretty awesome. I did hear about PIP issues, though. That does suck. I'd probably just quit if it happened to me. I have a low tolerance for crap at work.

I like the "get severance pay" strategy someone mentioned. I was only working there at all because the money and people were great.

jonathankoren9y ago

I've heard Apple's equity grants are stupid though. Instead of the standard grant-value / share-price-at-hire = number of shares, and then then vesting the number of shares over 4 years, Apple vests the grant-value over 4 years and then converts to stock using the share price at the time of vesting. This of course results in lower compensation over the vesting schedule assuming an appreciating stock price.

gohrt9y ago

They don't convert like you say, what they do it cut refreshes. Example:

You get $100K and $50K of stock (grant value): "target compensation" = $150K

Next year, when stock vests, your target compensation is $160K, so you get $110K cash plus a stock refresh grant: * Stock went down to $0 -> $100K refresh to make up. * Stock stayed flat: -> $50K refresh * Stock went up to $100K: -> 0K refresh to cancel out. * Stock went up to $150K: -> 0K refresh to cancel out, but you still come out ahead.

So, you get upside if the stock shoots up enough, and you are protected from downside, but you lose upside if stock grows insufficiently.

It works well if you like guaranteed income, but you have to ignore a lot of the "expect" upside potential. And it makes you wonder why they bother giving so much equity, doesn't it? 1. They don't give a lot of equity. 2. It's a shell game and most new hires don't value the offer accurately.

jonathankoren9y ago

So you're saying your initial grant remains untouched? So assuming $50k per year in stock for 4 years, after 4 years you'd get $200k plus the delta on 4 years of stock growth?

ridiculous_fish9y ago

FWIW, during my time at Apple, equity grants worked in the usual way of converting completely to a share count on the grant date. I never saw the grant-value vesting that you describe.

Buge9y ago

That seems useless to me. I thought the whole idea of stock grants is to motivate employees by rewarding them when the company does well and the stock goes up.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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amzn-3364959y ago

There are refresh equity grants unless you are on a PIP. Now you know what all the fucking PIPs are all about at Amazon (other than blocking your transfer).

You should not listen to what anyone at Amazon tells you.

SomeCallMeTimOP9y ago

Did you notice the part where I worked at Amazon in-house for a year? I was a consultant for them for six month before that as well.

And my experience was pretty awesome. I did hear about PIP issues, though. That does suck. I'd probably just quit if it happened to me. I have a low tolerance for crap at work.

I like the "get severance pay" strategy someone mentioned. I was only working there at all because the money and people were great.

jonathankoren9y ago

gohrt9y ago

They don't convert like you say, what they do it cut refreshes. Example:

You get $100K and $50K of stock (grant value): "target compensation" = $150K

So, you get upside if the stock shoots up enough, and you are protected from downside, but you lose upside if stock grows insufficiently.

jonathankoren9y ago

So you're saying your initial grant remains untouched? So assuming $50k per year in stock for 4 years, after 4 years you'd get $200k plus the delta on 4 years of stock growth?

ridiculous_fish9y ago

FWIW, during my time at Apple, equity grants worked in the usual way of converting completely to a share count on the grant date. I never saw the grant-value vesting that you describe.

Buge9y ago

That seems useless to me. I thought the whole idea of stock grants is to motivate employees by rewarding them when the company does well and the stock goes up.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse