PurpleJS – An alternative to Node.js for Java projects (opens in new tab)

(webagility.com)

81 pointsthousande9y ago49 comments

49 comments

I particularly don't find the problem it solves appealing. The power of Node comes specifically from its everything async programming model, Javascript is just a detail.

So what's the point in taking away the good part, and keep the cumbersome one? If you just want to program a Synchronous server in the JVM,just stick to Java.

_pmf_9y ago

> If you just want to program a Synchronous server in the JVM,just stick to Java.

And if you want to program an asynchronous server on the JVM in Java, all of the major and minor servers also support an asynchronous model (you merely lose the ability to program against the Servlet API, which pre-3 was bound to threads).

There's no reason at all to bring JS in for asynchronous behavior.

sourcesmith9y ago

There is also Vert.x which runs on the JVM but is event driven and asynchronous (as well as providing a reactive API) and supports JavaScript (http://vertx.io/docs/vertx-core/js/) as one of its languages.

cel1ne9y ago

I hope you don't mean the JVM by "the cumbersome part". It think is unparalleled in performance, garbage-collection, general dev-ops and monitoring capabilities.

You can run many different languages on it, all nicely contained within the virtual machine.

As far as I know Twitter replaced their Ruby/Rails with Code on top of the JVM for these reasons.

Also I don't think it's good to religiously stick to async/"just one thread" and sync/"one thread for everything". The most performant answer depends on the real world scenario and almost always lies somewhere in between.

boggydepot9y ago

I think he meant the js not java. Question about node js, So async model is the good part, js is the bad part, why use js then?

my1239y ago

The JVM is nowhere near as flexible as the CLR.

2 more replies

amelius9y ago

> The power of Node comes specifically from its everything async programming model, Javascript is just a detail.

I don't agree. The power of Node comes from being able to run the same code on the browser and the server (without transpiling performance penalties).

smashed9y ago

How does this relate to Nashorn?

With something like Avatar-JS [1] you can even run some NodeJS apps without modifications on the JVM.

[1] https://avatar-js.java.net

desdiv9y ago

It's built on top of Nashorn[1].

[1] https://github.com/purplejs/purplejs/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q...

wentoodeep9y ago

Ok so no android. Next.

1 more reply

illicium9y ago

See also Trireme [1], an implementation of Node.js 0.10.32 on the JVM, using Rhino.

[1] https://github.com/apigee/trireme

iamleppert9y ago

Why do people think async code is complicated and keep trying to replace it?

I think there are just people who will never understand or fully grok the beauty, power and simplicity of functional programming and will always seek to replace it. I feel sorry for them.

skrebbel9y ago

> Why do people think async code is complicated and keep trying to replace it?

As usual, @munificentbob explains it best: http://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/02/01/what-color-is-y...

fredliu9y ago

Isn't use case proposed by PurpleJS covered by Vert.x already? Or am I missing anything?

stenrs9y ago

Vert.x is similar. PurpleJS tries to make development of your webapps easier by combining the require-js model and a "sinatra"-way of developing rest endpoints.

dewiz9y ago

I wonder if LucasArts is happy with that logo :-) The image and the font brought up some good memories.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Tentacle

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/514Q95XGV8L...

jsuperman9y ago

They have actually stated on Twitter that the mascot is inspired by the DOTT character and the Java character (Duke): https://twitter.com/purple_js/status/732660360348631040

agentgt9y ago

I have seen several similar things that essentially use existing Java libraries or the libraries themselves offer it (Javascript).

* jooby [1]

* Vert.x [2]

* Rapidoid (I can't find the exact link where JS was used) [3]

I'm just not entirely sure why you would trade a language that is generally much safer for one that is known to be problematic at scale particularly since Java 8 has lambdas so you can do callback async style if you like. I mean I suppose you could use typescript but at that point why not stick with Node and if you need JVM stuff just make some sort of microservice to access it from Node.

If it is a learning thing than (as Java is complicated) than Clojure is far better option (I'm always amazed how easy it is to learn any Lisp as syntax becomes a non issue).

[1]: http://jooby.org/

[2]: http://vertx.io/

[3]: http://www.rapidoid.org/

diegorbaquero9y ago

Interesting offer, would be great to have some benchmarks comparison to see the value of it. Do you happen to have some?

jsuperman9y ago

I haven't seen any benchmarks yet, but the framework is actually originally the core engine of the web os / cms Enonic XP. Worth checking out:

https://discuss.enonic.com/t/purplejs-an-alternative-to-node...

https://enonic.com/

stenrs9y ago

No, sorry, no benchmarks yet. The main focus until now has been to speed up the development process. Right now it's pretty slick when it comes to reloading of resources on-the-fly when changed.

tracker19y ago

I'm just not sure I see the value... and in the end, not sure it will work out any better than the DLR attempts with .Net... It's interesting, just not sure I see the value. The Java runtime is about 60mb to download, then the extras for this... vs Node's runtime download under 14mb with a similar amount of library downloads for a given project.

That doesn't include the disconnect from the rest of the JS ecosystem which has centered around npm at this point (at least for the package repository itself, baring the yarn front end).

andrea_s9y ago

Perhaps that's closer to ClearScript (https://clearscript.codeplex.com/) in the .NET environment - although ClearScript has a broader area of application and supports multiple engines.

cheriot9y ago

This could be pretty cool. So in theory, all the Java, Scala, etc servers out there can wire up an isomorphic single page app without calling out to a Node process.

Once the docs are written... https://github.com/purplejs/purplejs/wiki/Embedding

premium-concern9y ago

Or you use Scala and Scala.js and just get things done.

stenrs9y ago

Sorry about that. The embedded mode is not yet documented, but I can certainly help you with embedding into existing systems.

__derek__9y ago

This reminded me of Nodyn[1], a Node-compatible JVM implementation, which it appears is no longer actively developed.

[1]: https://github.com/nodyn/nodyn#notice

stenrs9y ago

No, Nodyn tried to be fully compatible with NodeJs. PurpleJS is just an alternative - the scope is not to be fully compatible. Also Nodyn has it's own implementation of Javascript. PurpleJS uses Nashorn as the Javascript engine.

ilaksh9y ago

I didn't see any mention of Rhino. Does he know that existed (exists?)?

hibbelig9y ago

This uses Nashorn to execute the Javascript.

ilaksh9y ago

Oh ok so thats the new version then or rewrite? Just seems like he thinks its a new thing even though its been around for many years.

1 more reply

gfosco9y ago

Why don't any of the examples use Java?... Even the examples on GitHub, none of it looks any different than a Node.js project.

partycoder9y ago

An oversimplified way to describe node.js is: javascript bindings for libuv.

purpleJS would be javascript bindings for some Java framework.

skanga9y ago

Check here: https://github.com/purplejs/purplejs-examples/tree/master/sy...

mgkimsal9y ago

Because it's still javascript, just running on JVM instead of... v8?

At least, that's my read of the project.

gfosco9y ago

Ok, that's part of it. This line from the page is what gets me, "create server applications with Javascript but access and use Java libraries" and I think an example of that is very important.

1 more reply

johnhenry9y ago

Is it correct to say that this is like JRuby, but with JavaScript in place of Ruby?

PedroBatista9y ago

More like "This is like Sinatra running on the equivalent of JRuby"

lisivka9y ago

Does it use Rhino (to compile JS into bytecode)?

stenrs9y ago

No, it's using Nashorn which is bundled with Java 1.8+. It compiles Javascript into JVM bytecode as Rhino, but it's more performant.

lisivka9y ago

Thanks. Last time I looked at JS in Sun Java, it was in interpreter mode only due to license issues, so I always bundled Rhino with my projects to be able to precompile JS code, so it will run faster. But now performance of Nashorn is pretty impressive: https://blogs.oracle.com/nashorn/entry/nashorn_performance_w... .

kjsingh9y ago

simple question - can it work with npm dependencies out of box?

boggydepot9y ago

not out of the box, but the js vm used is based on webkit. for pure js deps, it can probably use them.

but maven repo is what you have out of the box which contains all (mostly) the libraries for java

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

49 comments

thalesmello9y ago

I particularly don't find the problem it solves appealing. The power of Node comes specifically from its everything async programming model, Javascript is just a detail.

So what's the point in taking away the good part, and keep the cumbersome one? If you just want to program a Synchronous server in the JVM,just stick to Java.

_pmf_9y ago

> If you just want to program a Synchronous server in the JVM,just stick to Java.

There's no reason at all to bring JS in for asynchronous behavior.

sourcesmith9y ago

cel1ne9y ago

I hope you don't mean the JVM by "the cumbersome part". It think is unparalleled in performance, garbage-collection, general dev-ops and monitoring capabilities.

You can run many different languages on it, all nicely contained within the virtual machine.

As far as I know Twitter replaced their Ruby/Rails with Code on top of the JVM for these reasons.

boggydepot9y ago

I think he meant the js not java. Question about node js, So async model is the good part, js is the bad part, why use js then?

my1239y ago

The JVM is nowhere near as flexible as the CLR.

2 more replies

amelius9y ago

> The power of Node comes specifically from its everything async programming model, Javascript is just a detail.

I don't agree. The power of Node comes from being able to run the same code on the browser and the server (without transpiling performance penalties).

smashed9y ago

How does this relate to Nashorn?

With something like Avatar-JS [1] you can even run some NodeJS apps without modifications on the JVM.

[1] https://avatar-js.java.net

desdiv9y ago

It's built on top of Nashorn[1].

[1] https://github.com/purplejs/purplejs/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q...

wentoodeep9y ago

Ok so no android. Next.

1 more reply

illicium9y ago

See also Trireme [1], an implementation of Node.js 0.10.32 on the JVM, using Rhino.

[1] https://github.com/apigee/trireme

iamleppert9y ago

Why do people think async code is complicated and keep trying to replace it?

I think there are just people who will never understand or fully grok the beauty, power and simplicity of functional programming and will always seek to replace it. I feel sorry for them.

skrebbel9y ago

> Why do people think async code is complicated and keep trying to replace it?

As usual, @munificentbob explains it best: http://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/02/01/what-color-is-y...

fredliu9y ago

Isn't use case proposed by PurpleJS covered by Vert.x already? Or am I missing anything?

stenrs9y ago

Vert.x is similar. PurpleJS tries to make development of your webapps easier by combining the require-js model and a "sinatra"-way of developing rest endpoints.

dewiz9y ago

I wonder if LucasArts is happy with that logo :-) The image and the font brought up some good memories.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Tentacle

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/514Q95XGV8L...

jsuperman9y ago

They have actually stated on Twitter that the mascot is inspired by the DOTT character and the Java character (Duke): https://twitter.com/purple_js/status/732660360348631040

agentgt9y ago

I have seen several similar things that essentially use existing Java libraries or the libraries themselves offer it (Javascript).

* jooby [1]

* Vert.x [2]

* Rapidoid (I can't find the exact link where JS was used) [3]

If it is a learning thing than (as Java is complicated) than Clojure is far better option (I'm always amazed how easy it is to learn any Lisp as syntax becomes a non issue).

[1]: http://jooby.org/

[2]: http://vertx.io/

[3]: http://www.rapidoid.org/

diegorbaquero9y ago

Interesting offer, would be great to have some benchmarks comparison to see the value of it. Do you happen to have some?

jsuperman9y ago

I haven't seen any benchmarks yet, but the framework is actually originally the core engine of the web os / cms Enonic XP. Worth checking out:

https://discuss.enonic.com/t/purplejs-an-alternative-to-node...

https://enonic.com/

stenrs9y ago

No, sorry, no benchmarks yet. The main focus until now has been to speed up the development process. Right now it's pretty slick when it comes to reloading of resources on-the-fly when changed.

tracker19y ago

That doesn't include the disconnect from the rest of the JS ecosystem which has centered around npm at this point (at least for the package repository itself, baring the yarn front end).

andrea_s9y ago

Perhaps that's closer to ClearScript (https://clearscript.codeplex.com/) in the .NET environment - although ClearScript has a broader area of application and supports multiple engines.

cheriot9y ago

This could be pretty cool. So in theory, all the Java, Scala, etc servers out there can wire up an isomorphic single page app without calling out to a Node process.

Once the docs are written... https://github.com/purplejs/purplejs/wiki/Embedding

premium-concern9y ago

Or you use Scala and Scala.js and just get things done.

stenrs9y ago

Sorry about that. The embedded mode is not yet documented, but I can certainly help you with embedding into existing systems.

__derek__9y ago

This reminded me of Nodyn[1], a Node-compatible JVM implementation, which it appears is no longer actively developed.

[1]: https://github.com/nodyn/nodyn#notice

stenrs9y ago

ilaksh9y ago

I didn't see any mention of Rhino. Does he know that existed (exists?)?

hibbelig9y ago

This uses Nashorn to execute the Javascript.

ilaksh9y ago

Oh ok so thats the new version then or rewrite? Just seems like he thinks its a new thing even though its been around for many years.

1 more reply

gfosco9y ago

Why don't any of the examples use Java?... Even the examples on GitHub, none of it looks any different than a Node.js project.

partycoder9y ago

An oversimplified way to describe node.js is: javascript bindings for libuv.

purpleJS would be javascript bindings for some Java framework.

skanga9y ago

Check here: https://github.com/purplejs/purplejs-examples/tree/master/sy...

mgkimsal9y ago

Because it's still javascript, just running on JVM instead of... v8?

At least, that's my read of the project.

gfosco9y ago

Ok, that's part of it. This line from the page is what gets me, "create server applications with Javascript but access and use Java libraries" and I think an example of that is very important.

1 more reply

johnhenry9y ago

Is it correct to say that this is like JRuby, but with JavaScript in place of Ruby?

PedroBatista9y ago

More like "This is like Sinatra running on the equivalent of JRuby"

lisivka9y ago

Does it use Rhino (to compile JS into bytecode)?

stenrs9y ago

No, it's using Nashorn which is bundled with Java 1.8+. It compiles Javascript into JVM bytecode as Rhino, but it's more performant.

lisivka9y ago

kjsingh9y ago

simple question - can it work with npm dependencies out of box?

boggydepot9y ago

not out of the box, but the js vm used is based on webkit. for pure js deps, it can probably use them.

but maven repo is what you have out of the box which contains all (mostly) the libraries for java

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse