Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial (opens in new tab)

Pretty much any treatment that has very aggressive effects is usually done without it.

Even treatments that can be tested using a control group are quite often tested without it if you can isolate your metrics well enough.

But technically you can still use a control group for psychoactive drugs because in every trial the first rule is not to give the test subjects any information about possible effects or side effects in order not introduce bias, you also quite often isolate the subjects from each other completely.

I'm also not sure if the dose that is given in this case is even high enough to induce hallucinations in the first place.

You always need a control group because you can't control for every externality over the exact time period the study was conducted. Maybe the weather was especially nice for those 3 months and the control group feels happier as well? We need a way to quantify the results and be able to answer those questions.

Always be careful with the conclusions you draw from studies without control groups. Small studies without control groups are very cheap to run, so you can run the same study 15 times and only report on it when you get the results you're looking for. Not saying that's what happened here, but we have to apply the same standards of proof to all drug studies or else they don't mean anything. The purpose of this study was likely not to prove "hallucinogens can cure depression" but rather "mushrooms are potentially effective and don't appear to have any glaring safety issues".

I also have more advice for newcomer shroomers: one thought can spiral downward or upward. Try your best to stay optimistic and open to the experience. You will not understand everything that happens (and this is a good thing because it's how people walk away feeling like they learned something), but you need to stay open and firm in your conviction that you're ok. As soon as you tell yourself "I think I'm going to die", you will create your own personal hell.

People think "innocence" isn't a feeling -- it's a judgment. They're wrong. Mushrooms evoke a feeling of innocence that brings the typical user back to a childhood state of mind. And while children are pretty stupid (no fault of their own), their perception is typically void of petty judgments adults cling to (by fault of their own). In this newfound awareness, just like a kid, you feel that anything is possible and yearn for adventure. It's a wonderful experience and is what makes mushrooms my #1 recommended drug.

Also, increased vitamin C.

However, studies interpreted more broadly than warranted can lead the unwary down deep, expensive, counterproductive dead ends. This happens all the time as the popular media get ahold stories, especially those relating to drug treatments and nutrition.

Consider the headline: "Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial."

That conclusion is out of line with the way in which the experiment was conducted, especially given the high tendency for large placebo effects in such studies. Without proper controls, the conclusion that magic mushrooms lift severe depression is next to useless.

That aside, and of course accepting that states induced by psilocybin and other substances are unobtainable by any other means, you are still nowhere near saying that these same substances can _reliably_ be used to treat depression. Furthermore, this course of treatment also needs to _reliably_ not make depression worse or trigger other types of anxiety that could trigger other medical conditions. Clearly, exactly what a aperson does under the influence of these substances can remarkably impact the results of the studies, so the techniques being used are being judged in these experiments just as much as the substances being used.

One shouldn't be dismissive of these studies, but also one should understand that the techniques used aren't the end-of-the-line in terms of potential these substances may have. on the other side of the token, we must also tread carefully. We must first do no harm!

A sense of raw novelty is evoked with our lack of understanding of the world around us becomes focused front and center.

Everything is beautiful in its own right. And the fractals in all of existence thoughts and visions run infinitely deep but we can almost grasp them.

Something like that. This is actually a pretty common sentiment. I know a lot of people who experimented with psychedelics in their 20s who in their 30s have said some variation of, "I don't think I'd want to do them now. I have too many things on my mind."

These responsibilities often entail dealing with a great deal more ethical ambiguity and have far fewer simple answers.

In addition to that, over the years I've learned many new facts about the world which indicate that I'm not as nice or good a person as I had previously understood myself to be.

At least in my case as, I get older I feel have both fewer options and the world is more complex than I had thought it was when I was when I was younger.

So my assumption has been that saying "I don't need to deal with XYZ" is probably far more common as folks get older.

And this doesn't seem to be a bad strategy.

On one hand, most large issues either resolve themselves are outside of any person's actions. On the other hand, I may gain even further insight about things as I age.

So I think that "hiding more from ourselves as we age" is probably normal.

I sure as hell don't have the optimism to look at the world with a head full of acid at this point in my life-- it's a horrible shit show of violence and greed even when I'm sober, and every year the possibility of doing much about it via individual action becomes less tenable.

But who knows, maybe I'll age into having some clearer understandings that will leave me more optimistic as I move into my 40s and 50s. Or get better at ignoring the vast problems.

I don't know about this trial specifically, but they usually use something like methylphenidate or nicotene.

I have a friend who had strikingly similar experiences as a child. She quit school for a while and got high daily -- mostly weed, as I understand it. About the age of 21 or 22, she got herself back into school and now has a very successful professional career.

Drugs may indeed destroy some people. But, the messaging is far too simple -- and simplistic.

And, those people often are not helped. They are simply castigated and ostracized.

I don't mean, at all, to make light of such circumstances. And, I have currently been helping someone -- help to the tune of dozens of hours per week and hundreds of miles driven, and hundreds of dollars -- who came darned close to being lost, herself.

I'd still trade my life for hers. She's lived hers -- mistakes and all.

The next few days he was still recovering, but thoughts still very scattered and incoherent. Unfortunately this didn't taper off. I had not seen him for a few weeks until his family were in contact. The behaviour had become drastically worse, violence and paranoia. Eventually he was diagnosed with schizophrenia.

From what I have read, with a certain kind of predisposition it would have probably manifested itself later in his life if he was unlucky.

I don't want to put people off Psilocybin as it can be an incredible thing. Just be damn careful and do your research.

He developed schizophrenia and had to drop out of college (a very good one). Never found out what became of him. His parents were extremely embarrassed and apologetic, having to pay for all of the destroyed property. Most of the monetary restitution went toward replacing textbooks that were ripped to shreds.

It’s easy to keep things the way they are, even if that results in greater long-term cost and harm. This is particularly true if you’re the one in power and you stand to benefit from keeping things as they are—whether because you can make money from it, or just because you think it’s morally right.

You see this also in code: it’s “easier” to keep modifying a clunky legacy codebase than to rewrite it, even if rewriting would result in overall better software. It’s not usually a conspiracy to create inefficiency, but a series of penny-wise decisions often has the same pound-foolish effect.

Of course, I agree that if society’s attitude toward drugs changes, politics will naturally catch up.

It amazes me how the entire magazine industry is like this. The most staid and respectable publications have circulation departments that make my local used car dealer look like a saint. It's a huge disconnect, and has always bothered me.

I subscribed for several years until I got tired of their political agenda. I think the straw that broke the camel's back was a feature article on cleaning up landmines in southeast asia. Now, surely this is an important topic, but it's not what I come to a science magazine to read about.

From there I moved to American Scientist magazine, which I found a bit deeper in many cases, and much better regarding editorializing.

> Whenever pot-culture words come up in "reporting" about medical treatments I immediately tune out

Ever think that you're contributing to the problem? Just ignore the editorializing.

So "cutting all stuff that's potentially giving by-effects" is idealistic and not currently possible without reducing the efficacy of the cannabis.

I'm sorry that 420 culture causes your bias, but that's not a fault of the plant.