undefined | Better HN

0 pointsjng9y ago0 comments

I guess they could do an "untethered" desktop version but they don't really want to. Solve syncing of history etc but it's doable. But they just love living in your pocket. It's all about owning you, and that's easier if they stay with you all the time.

0 comments

sanjeetsuhag9y ago

I feel the same way. Just build an independent app already. Telegram did it well. What's stopping WhatsApp ?

bikamonki9y ago

Monetization strategy is what's stopping Whatsapp. Eventually, there will be an official API so business can hook CRMs to clients' Whatsapp accounts. However, FB is first trying that with Messenger API/bots. I assume Whatsapp API/bots comes next.

FB did not pay billions for the most popular chat app just to let 1 billion people use it for free forever...

lucb1e9y ago

Free? Every WhatsApp user paid Facebook on day one with the contents of their address book and how frequently one person contacts another. This is of huge value if your business model is exactly to gather this kind of data.

2 more replies

NetStrikeForce9y ago

As kawera said two comments above yours:

Their servers do not store unencrypted messages so they need to come from the phone.

----

That's why some people criticise Telegram: Their messages have to be stored unencrypted for their setup to work.

kawera9y ago

Exactly. Telegram's "Secret Conversations" are encrypted end-to-end but then they aren't synced (or even supported on desktop).

1 more reply

khedoros9y ago

What's stopping them from either providing a way to sync the key to other devices, or allow the device to register its own keys, and they just store a couple copies of the encrypted data?

It seems like there should be ways to do it without storing unencrypted data.

dingo_bat9y ago

AFAIK Apple Message implements encryption and has independent clients. So I think the problem can be solved with some effort.

1 more reply

raimue9y ago

Telegram also only shares unencrypted chats across multiple devices.

kawera9y ago

How could then sync end-to-end encrypted messages?

motoboi9y ago

Sender encrypts same message several times, one for each receiver device.

Store them the same way they store today.

When the first device picks up the message, mark as delivered, when the user reads it, mark as read.

Something along those lines, I guess.

EDIT: message is encrypted, but not it's metadata, as the server must know where it came from and where it is going to.

camillomiller9y ago

Considering how much information about a subject is inferrable by means of metadata only, I'd say this is a much better solution, security wise.

kobayashi9y ago

Same way iMessage does

dmix9y ago

The same way Signal does is probably a better example.

microtonal9y ago

Keep in mind that Whatsapp still supports pretty old devices (Nokia S40/60), where you may not want to encrypt every image N times.

Edit: remove some stuff.

1 more reply

microtonal9y ago

A possible procedure is described by Moxie here:

https://moderncrypto.org/mail-archive/messaging/2014/001022....

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

sanjeetsuhag9y ago

I feel the same way. Just build an independent app already. Telegram did it well. What's stopping WhatsApp ?

bikamonki9y ago

FB did not pay billions for the most popular chat app just to let 1 billion people use it for free forever...

lucb1e9y ago

2 more replies

NetStrikeForce9y ago

As kawera said two comments above yours:

Their servers do not store unencrypted messages so they need to come from the phone.

----

That's why some people criticise Telegram: Their messages have to be stored unencrypted for their setup to work.

kawera9y ago

Exactly. Telegram's "Secret Conversations" are encrypted end-to-end but then they aren't synced (or even supported on desktop).

1 more reply

khedoros9y ago

What's stopping them from either providing a way to sync the key to other devices, or allow the device to register its own keys, and they just store a couple copies of the encrypted data?

It seems like there should be ways to do it without storing unencrypted data.

dingo_bat9y ago

AFAIK Apple Message implements encryption and has independent clients. So I think the problem can be solved with some effort.

1 more reply

raimue9y ago

Telegram also only shares unencrypted chats across multiple devices.

kawera9y ago

How could then sync end-to-end encrypted messages?

motoboi9y ago

Sender encrypts same message several times, one for each receiver device.

Store them the same way they store today.

When the first device picks up the message, mark as delivered, when the user reads it, mark as read.

Something along those lines, I guess.

EDIT: message is encrypted, but not it's metadata, as the server must know where it came from and where it is going to.

camillomiller9y ago

Considering how much information about a subject is inferrable by means of metadata only, I'd say this is a much better solution, security wise.

kobayashi9y ago

Same way iMessage does

dmix9y ago

The same way Signal does is probably a better example.

microtonal9y ago

Keep in mind that Whatsapp still supports pretty old devices (Nokia S40/60), where you may not want to encrypt every image N times.

Edit: remove some stuff.

1 more reply

microtonal9y ago

A possible procedure is described by Moxie here:

https://moderncrypto.org/mail-archive/messaging/2014/001022....

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse