undefined | Better HN

0 pointschris_wot10y ago0 comments

It's rude to use [citation needed] to belittle another person. It's certainly unacceptable to tell someone they're full of shit. It's also rude to tell someone to shut the fuck up.

It's not rude to question assumptions or to ask where someone gets their data from.

The voting system is good on HN, but it's limited. If you post something controversial, but possibly accurate, then if only people who don't like what you say vote you down, then it just shows that people don't like what you say. If you write something popular but kind of dodgy, then you'll get voted up significantly - and given nobody but yourself can see your score then your comment just shows in normal font weight. Those who vote it down can get it to a score of 1, and nobody will be any the wiser.

So the vote mechanism is very good here, and very effective, but it doesn't necessarily improve discourse. Nor does it force people to justify their views. Nor does it help progress understanding.

I've often been asked to provide a source for my views. I'm always happy to do so. Heck, there have even been a few times it has forced me to concede that my view wasn't well thought out. If anything, bring politely questioned helped me more than it did the questioner. Other times there has been the pleasant and surprising occassion where the questioner thanked me for my sources and agreed that I was probably correct.

That's hardly "rude garbage".

0 comments

maratd10y ago

> It's not rude to question assumptions or to ask where someone gets their data from.

It is absolutely rude to demand proof in a conversation. And this is a forum for having conversations.

A conversation isn't a research project or the pursuit of absolute truth. It's merely a social convention to find out what others are thinking and feeling.

To go around telling people they're liars or to ask them to prove that they're not liars is rude beyond belief in such a setting.

If you feel so passionate about the issue, do your own research and provide your own citations against. Nothing wrong with that. But demand that the person who said something you don't like should do it for you? Rude.

chris_wotOP10y ago

Well, then, we have a fundamental difference of opinion. If I see someone make claims that the vast majority of homeless people are completely unhelpable because of a specific example which they have observed anecdotally, then I'll ask for empirical evidence.

Nobody is calling that person a liar. Asking someone for evidence does not necessarily mean they consider that person a liar. They may believe they are mistaken. They may be interested in understanding how they came to their conclusions. They may want to understand why someone's world view is so different to their own.

You should ask yourself why you consider asking for evidence on a discussion forum rude. It sounds like you feel it's overly confrontational. If that's the case, then you might want to consider your own confrontation (ala "If you feel so passionate about the issue, do your own research and provide your own citations against. Nothing wrong with that. But demand that the person who said something you don't like should do it for you? Rude.")

maratd10y ago

> You should ask yourself why you consider asking for evidence on a discussion forum rude. It sounds like you feel it's overly confrontational.

I already answered this question, multiple times. It has nothing to do with being confrontational.

It has to do with being RUDE.

Rude: discourteous or impolite, especially in a deliberate way [1]

[1] http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rude

Nobody owes you ANY citations. You are being LAZY by demanding them. That LAZINESS is RUDE. If you disagree with someone, get off your lazy ass, go on Google, find evidence to the contrary and share. If you're too lazy to do that, then STFU instead of posting "citation needed". That doesn't add to the discussion. It's nothing more than an expression of displeasure with absolutely no effort to enhance the conversation.

2 more replies

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointschris_wot10y ago0 comments

It's rude to use [citation needed] to belittle another person. It's certainly unacceptable to tell someone they're full of shit. It's also rude to tell someone to shut the fuck up.

It's not rude to question assumptions or to ask where someone gets their data from.

So the vote mechanism is very good here, and very effective, but it doesn't necessarily improve discourse. Nor does it force people to justify their views. Nor does it help progress understanding.

That's hardly "rude garbage".

0 comments

maratd10y ago

> It's not rude to question assumptions or to ask where someone gets their data from.

It is absolutely rude to demand proof in a conversation. And this is a forum for having conversations.

A conversation isn't a research project or the pursuit of absolute truth. It's merely a social convention to find out what others are thinking and feeling.

To go around telling people they're liars or to ask them to prove that they're not liars is rude beyond belief in such a setting.

chris_wotOP10y ago

maratd10y ago

> You should ask yourself why you consider asking for evidence on a discussion forum rude. It sounds like you feel it's overly confrontational.

I already answered this question, multiple times. It has nothing to do with being confrontational.

It has to do with being RUDE.

Rude: discourteous or impolite, especially in a deliberate way [1]

[1] http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rude

2 more replies

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse