So like IRC? Telling everyone to "use Freenode" is no better than Slack, both are centralised. You might have more client choice, but you're still logging into someone else's server.
I'm no fan of Slack, but I don't get the claimed conflict when using it with an open source project. Would it also be bad to host the project's source code on GitHub, or the web site on IIS?
Actually it's not completely irrelevant, as the fact that the host platform of proprietary software is free software has value in the security-based argument in favor of free software, but that's only tangential to the topic at hand.
Would it also be bad to host the project's source code on GitHub
Not necessarily, if really all you're using github for is hosting, then there's nothing wrong. That is, if you don't use their issues/PR system or other auxiliary services. This is how, for example, the linux project uses github. In this case, all that you're asking people to do is use git (free software) to download some stuff from servers owned by Github, Inc.
Running the website on IIS is fine though; this imposes absolutely nothing on your users or contributors.
Some Free Software people certainly think that. It is imho at least problematic. For example, the unicorn web server developer, finds github problematic from the 'UX' side in addition to dependence on proprietary software and infrastructure (which creeps into the commit messages).
"Contributing to unicorn is socially as easy as contributing to git or the Linux kernel. There is no need to signup for anything, no need to ever touch a bloated web browser."[0]
[0]:http://bogomips.org/unicorn-public/20140801213202.GA2729%40d...
The web browser may be free, but all of the JavaScript you are running is proprietary.
>And there are many closed-source IRC clients.
But there are many free ones, and there isn't an official client that is proprietary. It's possible to use Slack, more or less, over IRC or XMPP, but they are second-class citizens. The recommended way to use Slack is via their proprietary web interface.
But the next point you make — "but you're still logging into someone else's server" — is not necessarily true. IRC is not a federated system, but a good way to think of it is as a federated protocol that has a central point of control at the federation level. Kind of like geopolitical federation: individual states in the US (theoretically) have sovereignty within their borders, but when it comes to interacting with their peers, the other states, they are controlled by a centralized power known as the US Federal Government. In the same way, a single IRC server can act independently so long as all the recipients of all of the messages that all of the clients are sending are also connected to this server. Once a recipient of a message is connected to a different server, then the irc network (the federal government, if you will) takes control.
Now, this all is mostly of theoretical interest, because in reality if you objected to the centralization of an IRC network, you'd be much better off just running your own network than applying to run a server for an existing network.
The reason to prefer Freenode's brand of centralization over Slack's is the same as the reason to prefer Debian to Apple. Debian and Freenode are community-run organizations, staffed by volunteers, which push to advance the values of free software. Apple and Slack are for-profit corporate organizations which are driven by the wills of their investors, not their users.
Yes, a proper federated IM network would be better than Freenode. But there isn't one, and just because Freenode isn't the best solution, doesn't mean it isn't better than Slack.
>> Yes, a proper federated IM network would be better than Freenode. But there isn't one.
Ah the short term memories of Silicon Valley.
http://xmpp.org/ + Pidgin. Support for DNSSEC. Support for TLS[1]. OTP is provably uncrackable. Support for that too! Though it has no major company backing it, the protocol's RFC has been published and there is public source code for both clients and servers. (There was support for Google until they realized 'uh we can make more money by Walling in our Garden' and in 2013 Hangouts came out, but there is a proper federated IM network that's secure(ish), agnostic and fairly robust).
>> But a good way to think of it is as a federated protocol that has a central point of control at the federation level.
Eh. IRC is inherently only as federated as the opers who choose to run their links and leaf nodes in a united fashion. In the late 90s/very early 2000s -- back when Freenode was OPN and even blackbox took tens of minutes to compile! -- there was so much drama with where people would fork off networks over trivial BS. I have a disagreement with my bud John, and drama ensues and a network gets forked. I can't just 'fork' off from the US. Some gentlemen in the 1860s tried to do it and didn't fare quite well.
[1] To be fair, STARTTLS can be chunked into basically any protocol. My point stands.
