undefined | Better HN

0 pointskweks10y ago0 comments

Tooling and injection molding is an arcane art. Most people would be amazed to realise that the tooling to make even the yubikey would probably be around 45cm x 45cm of (almost) solid steel block.

They'd be probably even more surprised to find that it'd cost 10k - 15k to make the tooling.

Diagnosing / 'debugging' issues with injection molding is incredibly difficult - again - it's almost black magic, and it's sadly a skill that's getting harder and harder to find.

If you cast your eyes around your desk / room, we see molded plastic parts every where - so we make the assumption that they must be cheap and easy to do.

And indeed - the assumption of facility due to availability is a very common trap that many kickstart projects fall into.

It's harder to scaffold and pivot in real life ;)

0 pointskweks10y ago0 comments

Tooling and injection molding is an arcane art. Most people would be amazed to realise that the tooling to make even the yubikey would probably be around 45cm x 45cm of (almost) solid steel block.

They'd be probably even more surprised to find that it'd cost 10k - 15k to make the tooling.

Diagnosing / 'debugging' issues with injection molding is incredibly difficult - again - it's almost black magic, and it's sadly a skill that's getting harder and harder to find.

If you cast your eyes around your desk / room, we see molded plastic parts every where - so we make the assumption that they must be cheap and easy to do.

And indeed - the assumption of facility due to availability is a very common trap that many kickstart projects fall into.

It's harder to scaffold and pivot in real life ;)

0 comments

4 comments · 2 top-level

hga10y ago· 2 in thread

Apple justified their purchase of a Cray in part for this use case.

nickpsecurity10y ago

That's something else. You got a link for that?

hga10y ago

Nope, just contemporaneous memory, and by then I'd learned a lot about manufacturing by working at LMI, so it was something I paid attention to. Try e.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+cray+injection+molding... which got me these two top hits:

ftp://ftp.cray.com/announcements/product/OLD/Moldflow_Partnership.930408.txt

http://www.clock.org/~fair/computers/sgi-cray.html

The latter should be authoritative, Eric Fair was an Apple sysadmin in the '80s or thereabouts (and son of the Fair in Fair Issac, the inventors of credit scoring).

And there were quite a few more links I didn't check out.

1 more reply

nickpsecurity10y ago

I believe it. Sounds like a market rife for disruption by people that can turn it into a cookbook approach on the cheap. More interesting from a security angle: malicious tooling on packaging side might be used to pre-compromise chips or devices. I haven't seen anyone write on that and I've had to little time to do a paper on it. I'm sure there's a whole cat and mouse game waiting on us that the cats are probably already playing. ;)

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse