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0 pointsmannykannot10y ago0 comments

> Progress wends its way slowly, incrementally, with ideas gaining clarity bit by bit. So it has gone and presumably so it will continue until someone presents an argument that the process of the improvement in our understanding of the scientific method is complete.

You have created a straw man in a weak attempt to transfer your burden of proof onto me. The claim of mine, that you are disputing, is that philosophy is not nearly as relevant to science now as it was in science's beginnings. That claim is not predicated in any way on the assumption that our understanding of the scientific method is complete.

In your last paragraph, you need to be able to replace all the 'coulds' and 'woulds' with 'dids' and 'does'. As it stands, you have now made three successive posts without putting up an actual argument in support of your position.

Furthermore, you would have to show a significance comparable to the achievements of science as a whole - if your claim is that the current contributions of philosophy to science are comparable in significance to an individual hypothesis or theory, then I rest my case.

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igravious10y ago· 1 in thread

> You have created a straw man

Not intentionally, I assure you. I have repeatedly tried to understand your position and respond exactly to that position. I'm going to give it one more attempt, if this attempt also fails in your eyes then we'll have to agree to disagree, okay?

> (1) The claim of mine, that you are disputing, is that philosophy is not nearly as relevant to science now as it was in science's beginnings.

That's an odd sentence construction. It could mean either that this is the claim from my point of view I _think_ I am disputing (and it's not) or that this is the claim I _ought to_ be disputing (and I'm not).

Witness. A previous stating of the claim by you.

> (2) Quite the contrary - I am giving an example that is supportive of the view that, while philosophy was instrumental in the development of the scientific method, it is no longer playing that role, and has not for some time.

(By the way. You make claims about philosophy yet use examples from philosophy _of science_ (Popper and Kuhn). If you mean to say `philosophy of science' please say philosophy of science and do not use philosophy as a shorthand. Also, you seem to be using science and `the scientific method' interchangeably. Please don't.)

You'll see your claims don't square. I have addressed (2) and am not going to repeat myself.

> In your last paragraph, you need to be able to replace all the 'coulds' and 'woulds' with 'dids' and 'does'. As it stands, you have now made three successive posts without putting up an actual argument in support of your position.

No I do not. I stated it as a conditional (If Kuhn is right [...] could [...] would [...]) to allow for the position that someone may disagree with Kuhn specifically but it does not invalidate my point in general _if Kuhn is right_. If you keep claiming that I am not addressing the substance of your argument then I am going to have to conclude that you are arguing in bad faith. Hence, one more attempt, okay?

> Furthermore, you would have to show a significance comparable to the achievements of science as a whole - if your claim is that the current contributions of philosophy to science are comparable in significance to an individual hypothesis or theory, then I rest my case.

I do not have to show any such thing. And I am making no such claim. I am countering your claim, not attempting to make a novel claim of my own.

mannykannotOP10y ago

Here we see a rhetorical ploy that is commonly used by climate-change deniers and creationists: after spending some time talking around the issue, they switch to claiming they have already addressed it. They then say they are not going to go over it again, trying to cover up their inability to give an answer with the suggestion that they have made an irrefutable one.

Though it is hard to tell what you are thinking, I think there is a chance you did this unknowingly. If so, then there is a way for you to recover: go back in this thread to the first post of mine that you replied to, state your disagreement with it, and present an argument for your position. Be specific and to the point.

To avoid one opportunity for further confusion, the post in question is this:

"Philosophy was, of course, the progenitor of science, but it is harder to find current relevance. For example, was science in a state of confusion until Popper corrected the errors of the logical positivists? Did the development of plate tectonics have to wait until Kuhn explained the structure of scientific revolutions?"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10448491

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